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Post by Joel_W on Jun 9, 2019 4:50:45 GMT -8
Well, TMS was the usual crash fest once it got dark and into the last stages of the race. No one outside of Herta could pass in the corners driving the outside line. Rossi who tried for the last 10 laps or so to pass Newgarden for the win. Newgarden just stuck to the bottom like glue for his 3rd win of the season, and is still leading in points. Seems that he also had that exact issue at Indy.
Dixon who almost never crashes and finds a way to finish for pts, has now crashed out twice, once in the Detroit race 1, and yesterday when he took out Herta who was along side on the inside of turn 3.
I'm not a huge fan of ovals with the exception of the Indy 500 for one basic reason: They can't get a decent crowd to attend, yet on the street and road courses they have fantastic attendance. Yesterday had to be another embarrassment as the back stretch seats were virtually empty as I'm sure that the track closed all those sections. The only place where there was any fans at all was the main grandstands, & they had plenty of empty seats as well, while the wings on both sides were also virtually empty. I just don't get it why they keep banging their heads against the wall with respect to the ovals. Just become a road racing series plus Indy. They couldn't have made any money on the event, I'm sure that the track lost money, and the concession stands must have had a ton of food to give to charity after the race. And yes I realize that their roots starting with USAC was all ovals, but times have changed. Today the ovals are all about Nascar, and even they have almost empty tracks with the two supporting series: The Nationwide Series, and the trucks. From the little I've seen and read, even the Sprint Car Series isn't selling out their races like they use to.
Looking forward to the Indy Cars at Road America in two weeks as it's one of my favorite tracks.
Joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Jun 9, 2019 5:16:35 GMT -8
I think the majority of Fans, only consider convenience when going to a race, "Hey Let s go Downtown and Watch those Indy Cars race around the Street Course" Not "Hey Lets Drive 2 Hours out in the Middle of Somewhere, sit in traffic for 2 hours and watch Indy Cars Race at an Oval" such is the simplicity of the modern fan. Should they start racing in Modern Stadium/Dome type venues in the middle of most major Metropolis, they would be Packed, there would be Tailgating , easy access by Public transportation and just a short trip to and from the track, Indy is in the middle of town as an example.. Its not like the 60's thru 80's when we would go drive 6 hours each way to watch the races at Riverside or ?? Tracks like Laguna Seca and Road America have a history and a nice comfortable feeling you get from Moms Apple pie.. so Fans make a weekend of it, with family and friends in tow in an almost Park like setting.. Make sense ? Chris
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Post by Joel_W on Jun 9, 2019 9:25:41 GMT -8
Chris,
TMS is 21 miles from Downtown Fort Worth.
Permanent road courses are usually hours from a fairly large city. Yet Mid Ohio, Laguna Seca, Watkin Glen (literally hours from anywhere, and the roads to it like US 17 are basically a two lane affair), Road America, and the list goes on are literally packed. While there is no Indy Car racing anywhere near me these days, I do travel to Lime Rock in Conn where I need to take a expensive Ferry across LI Sound just to get to Conn, then I need to drive north for a good hour or so.
Agreed about the temp street courses being more for vacations and city people, but they've had some failures as well. Cart ran in the Meadow lands (NJ) right across from NYC, and it was a failure in every which way.
Outside of Indy, which is an institution and doesn't count for our purposes, all the rest of the ovals are poorly attended and must loose money for all concerned.
Like You, back in the 60-70s I lived at Bridgehampton, drove to Watkins Glen for every race, which was a good 7-8 hrs and thought nothing of it. I was at the 1st Indy Car race at Pocono which Donahue won, and never went back.
Joel
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Post by alwaysindy on Jun 9, 2019 15:06:34 GMT -8
Joel:
Always remember that other folks have different opinions...just returned from my family’s 22nd race at TMS...originally 4, we are now up to 10 seats for the race...Have converted both sons and their wives...it is now a family tradition...I’ve been to Indy 3 times, Talledaga, Rolex 24, Sebring, COTA twice,the 84 Dallas GP, 3 Houston IC races,Phoenix, and Barber...TMS is my favorite because you can see ALL the track...you see crash fest: I see some of the closest racing and finishes of all time..it originally drew 100,000 because of NASCAR/IRL ticketing...last few years; 30,000 at least...it has been owned by Bruton Smith and the GM, Eddie Gossage, has been a friend of the IRL and the reunited Indycar Series...he even got CART to try and race in 2001...Both of us have opinions, and mine is there is no way Bruton Smith would allow Gossage to hold an Indycar race that loses money (since he is a NASCAR guy) but neither of us will ever know...
I get it: some people like moving around and seeing different corners which typifies Road Racing (no matter the series) but some of us like it all: rr circuit, street race And ovals. In the words off Sly and the Family Stone: Different strokes for different folks...
Respectfully,
Tim
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Post by Joel_W on Jun 10, 2019 8:21:14 GMT -8
Tim,
Honestly I do respect other people's opinions. And I certainly envy the number of races you and your family have been to. My closest Road course is Watkins Glen, and the Indy Cars don't run there.
I'm more of a road course traditionist as that's my background when I use to time trail at Bridgehampton, then Enduro Karts from New Hampshire as far south as Virginia. We did race on a 1/4 mile oval a few times per season, and believe it or not I had a pretty good winning record there.
Whether or not TMS makes any money really depends on the Cable TV contracts. My point was and still is that the stands were basically empty of fans. And that's more the norm for Indy Ovals other then the 500.
Even the announcers predicted that once it got dark, the crash feist would start as always, and it did. They also predict crashes on the street circuits as there are usually few places to actually pass. I'm not a fan of crashes, as that's not what racing is about. I'd have a lot more respect for certain drivers if the cut down on their do or die passes that usually end up with two or more cars in the wall.
Joel
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Post by alwaysindy on Jun 10, 2019 9:01:05 GMT -8
Joel:
I appreciate your answer...I did not mention that I live about 5 hours from TMS and 4 hours from COTA...the amusing thing is until they were built, the closest track was Talledaga...so you are correct that we relate to what we are closest to...I was more on the CART side during the Split, but the IRL was the closest game in town...the family has been involved in TMS and COTA and 1 Indy trip...the rest were usually with just a buddy...the races I have seen were all interesting, but all very different...in 1984, the Dallas GP was 100+ and Malboro was giving away tickets and cigarettes...the Talledaga race was in 1994, and the whole experience was overshadowed by the death of Senna the same day...Barber last year was a revelation and goes down as the cleanest Auto Racing facility I have ever seen...Indy is: INDY....the IMSA guys have the closest access you can get to the cars and drivers, no matter where they race...F1 is Far And Away the most expensive ($75 for a Mercedes cap!?!?...I am one of the luckiest guys on the planet in that in my later adult years I have been able to live and see boyhood dreams...and yes!!! I would love for Indycar to race at The Glen and maybe I’ll come meet you!
Tim
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Post by Joel_W on Jun 10, 2019 9:42:01 GMT -8
Tim,
As you said, you're certainly to have access, and a family that encourages you to attend several races per year. Traveling long distances to attend a race is the worst part by far.
Bridgehampton was a God send as it was just about 1hr there, and races on Sunday took nearly 3 or more hours to get home due to traffic from the Hamptons and it was just a two lane road for a 1/3 of the trip. And speaking of cleanliness, I do remember Hill saying that the facilities at Bridgehampton were so bad that he refused to even shower there! Still, the place was heaven for me.
I'm hoping to make Lime Rock for the IMSA races but I need a driving partner, as I'm legally blind in one eye, and night driving without road lights or in the rain is just about impossible for me.
Joel
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