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Post by Joel_W on Sept 12, 2019 5:21:46 GMT -8
Chris, For me, one of the reasons of using a Real Model Paint primer rather then a generic Gray, Black, or pale Red mat paint is it's ability to both cover raw plastic, resin, and putty, with a few lite coats so that the surface is a single shade of neutral Gray, as well as providing an excellent surface once properly prepared for the thinned color coats. These super thin primers just don't do that. I've had these issues before where it takes coat after coat of primer to finally cover different color plastics and fillers. And with the build up of many coats of primer, the recessed lines slowly fill in, and the surface just from the nature of these paints will start to get an Orange peel effect as one layer of primer pushes the previous layers as they're not fully cured.
Sure the answer is just give each coat more drying time. Sounds great but I'm at 5 min or so now. I'm not going to wait 10 min or longer between coats as the paint session will most likely go on for a good hour or so. That's cause for concern of overheating of my Iwata compressor, and honestly slowly driving me to boredom as watching paint dry isn't much more exciting then watching the grass grow.
But as I've said, these issues just don't happen when I use the Mr. Hobby or Tamiya Primers thinned 1:1 with #400 leveling thinner. A few lite coats followed by 2 or 3 Wet coats, and I'm done. A few hours later I can wet sand or leave it until the next day. Problem solved, cased closed.
I've also been exchanging posts with Paul from International Scale Modeler, whose own line of primers is just the rebranded Badger line, as I was curious as to why he air brushes those primers on neat (unthinned) @ 25-30 psi. According to Paul, those primers were formulated to be applied that way to prevent all the issues I've experienced with the new generation of super thinned primers. I just might order a bottle or two and test them for myself.
Since I've never used TS-12 as a primer sealer, why would it be better at covering the surface to a single consistency, rather then a Primer/Sealer specifically made for that very purpose?
And lastly, I do have a few cans of Tamiya Gray primer that I use for small fast jobs. Works great, and never had a issue with it.
Joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Sept 12, 2019 7:06:01 GMT -8
Year's back I noticed the Lowrider crowd was using brilliant Colors, Metallics, Kandies and Pearls to achieve fantastic results, I went to Coast Airbrush in Anaheim Ca. and spoke to the techs there as well as a bunch of Lowrider builders, I was doing drag cars and wanted that great paint finish. I found they were using House of Kolor automotive paints, I spent a couple hundred dollars and got all the basecoats, pearls and Kandies I wanted, reducers, interclear and whatever. I started using it Real Automotive paints and had the result I wanted winning a few Best Paint awards with a Flinstone Frankenstude curbside I built I spoke to Duplicolor since I sold their products and found that Primers are not Lacquer or what ever they are Pigment and a propellant , so I started using the Spot filler Primer on 90% of the paint I did , why spot filler, because it fills sand marks, light imperfections and creates a super smooth surface as well as a great barrier for Lacquers. I also found that Testor's was bought by Valspar , who also owns House of Kolor, so its all one company anymore. The custom paint line was bought by Valspar to get those fabulous color formula's and now is applied to their line of house paints!! Never had a problem using Duplicolor primer on anything. My good friend of 40 years Ron Ramsey and I did all the spoon test and color tests etc, and I found on high detail items, particularly where there was multiple materials use and different colors of plastic, You Drag Cars require a lot on modification and scratchbuilding, that I could us AS-12 Tamiya as a base coat/barrier and I would never get any bleed through ,plus really thats is basically how real cars are done. I am resl Big on Model Products For Model Cars , then looking at and talking to Grvity, Zero and all the others out there I found most were re-bottled Automotive paint, in original formula to match all the race cars, so I guess you really are using an Automotive product on a model car anyway. Tamiya Primer has treated me well but on some applications not so. I have had some variation in the finish, some build up and a lot of orange peel. so I in those cases I tend to go back to my Duplicolor spot filler primer , I recently saw it is sold at Lowes, at a reasonable price but the cans I get at O'Reily's are in a different label and to em seem to be a bit more Automotive oriented . So once you understand what primer actually is and is not I think you can safely use automotive primers on Resin, Plastic and Metals.. Chris
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 12, 2019 7:38:38 GMT -8
Chris, your Flinstone Frankenstude is just outrageous !! And that finish is beyond belief. I should have modified what I said that Silver is a must under Candy coats, but Gloss Black is what the model paint companies recommend. I vary from Gloss Black to Gloss Gray to Mattish Gray depending on the finish I'm after.
Mr. Hobby's primer/filler is their 1,200 and I must might switch back to it over their 1,500. Tamiya only has one type Primer/filler and it's thicker then the 1200, which I usually use by brush as a filler only. All of these products have a very heavy lacquer smell, and are labeled as such.
Now, Duplicolor really sounds like a great option for me. Is it sold in a can or only a spray can? I've never had much luck using them other then with small parts. Nooks and crannies were the killer for me.
As I said, Paul's and Badger's line of primers are lacquer/Acrylic based, and he states that once dry works with lacquers just fine. I've followed him since he made the switch to cars/bikes, and he does know his stuff.
Joel
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Post by starfighterace on Sept 12, 2019 9:24:59 GMT -8
Thanks for the Tip, Chris. I will drop Gene a note to pick one up. I have the decals and lots of donor chassis. I picked these kits up at Model shows really cheap for years.
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Sept 12, 2019 12:31:36 GMT -8
Joel, Most of what is called Acrylic Lacquer is a synonym for just Lacquer example: is there an actual Acrylic Lacquer thinner.. naw its all the same other than Acrylic lacquer is pigments made from acrylic plastic and a carrier, usually thinner of Lacquer base, and the Duplicolor Filler primer is micro plastic beads for filler too..thats why it works well on model car plastic, it comes in both both most stores carry only the spray, which for lazy guys like me is the ticket.. Chris ps. the Frankenstude is a Duplicolor light grey spot filler primer, then Orion Silver (metallic) base coat , then interclear and finished with Aztec Gold with a small touch of light silver pearl added, and a coat of Tamiya Ts-13 Clear, all the color coats are House of Kolor like the interclear and reducers too..
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 12, 2019 13:01:07 GMT -8
Chris, So there's no real difference from a true auto lacquer to a Acrylic lacquer other then the pigment. So then what is the pigment in auto lacquers made of?
BTW, I rubbed out the primer coat with #3000 sponge soaking wet, and got it down to being smooth enough for color coats, but the variations in tones of the Yellow and the gray filler was showing way to much. So as I said, I reprimed over it with Mr. Hobby's 1,500 cut 1:1 which is pretty thin. I just might up it to 3 parts primer, 2 parts thinner. I use to use that before I was tempted by the super thin stuff. But I still want to try the Badger primers for myself. I've got a feeling it just maybe what suits my style better.
Joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Sept 12, 2019 20:26:53 GMT -8
Although most manufacturers I talked were very vague about the pigments used in Primers I got the picture from them as its is micro plastic bits or beads, which would be sandable, fill nicely and work on almost any surface, Bondo is a micro plastic filler so I assume it is along those lines. either way no worries when using on Plastic or Resin.. Chris
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 13, 2019 13:23:22 GMT -8
Chris, Interesting about Bondo. I never would have thought that it had any plastic resin in it's composition. Joel
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cc
Full Time Ride
Posts: 141
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Post by cc on Sept 14, 2019 12:11:50 GMT -8
Joel, yes on the micro sal and set. I have not had any real problems. Decals some times have issues if you use to much liquid. Over all very happy with the way they lay down. Sorry I have not been hear for a while have wife medical issue that take my time sometimes. I’ll check in when I can
CC
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 14, 2019 12:33:19 GMT -8
Joel, yes on the micro sal and set. I have not had any real problems. Decals some times have issues if you use to much liquid. Over all very happy with the way they lay down. Sorry I have not been hear for a while have wife medical issue that take my time sometimes. I’ll check in when I can CC CC, Thanks for the info. Please don't feel that your time away due to your wife's medical problems needs an apology. Like you said, check in and contribute when you can and feel up to it. I'm sure that Chris and JC would say the same exact thing. I'm also going through a stressful time with my Mother n Law, Medicaid, home care, etc. So I all to well know the feeling. My wife is there, I go back and forth most days, and tinker with my build for a little relaxation before and after trips. Fortunately for our son, neither of us will make it into the 90s like my Mother n Law has. Joel
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Post by shunter on Sept 26, 2019 14:40:27 GMT -8
Great looking model. Look forward to seeing more
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 27, 2019 3:59:37 GMT -8
Shayne, Thanks for the thumbs up, but the build will be on hold for a while. There are a few reasons for that decision. 1st is that the other car list I'm a member on has a Ford GB starting in 4 days, and I'm going to build the Revell 1985 Roush Folger's Mustang. After that I'm either going to return to the kendall's All Sport Mustang build or build the Revell Trans Am Camaro.
Joel
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Post by pnance26 on Sept 30, 2019 19:37:44 GMT -8
I envy you for having this kit and decals, it will yield a great looking car. Thank you for sharing the process. John John, When I started to focus on a few Trans Am and GTO kits, I just thought that it was just the Revell Mustangs of the 1980s and their Camaro kit as well, which is basically the Mustang kit with a different engine and body. The BHP Transkit for the 1997 Mustang was a gift that literally I didn't even know existed. I'm just hoping that I can do it justice, but it's going to be a real challenge to say the least. For that matter the same goes for what Indy/Cart cars are out there. I have a few AMT kits, and now am eyeing some of the superb Resin kits that are available. The same issue holds true for them, buy now or miss out on owning them at a reasonable price. Joela Do you have the Domino's March or the Kraco March that I think are from AMT? If not, I will gladly send them to you as I doubt I will get around to building them until well after I am dead!
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