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Post by Ben_B on May 24, 2020 6:23:48 GMT -8
Yes, I thought he was using an ALPS printer.
SpotModel’s service looks interesting. I’ve been learning to use Inkscape (freeware) for vector graphics to print my own airliner decals. Unfortunately, it can’t save as AI files, so I can’t send them out to be printed, so I’m limited to what I can do. I understand there’s a relatively inexpensive version of AI that’s available, but I haven’t explored it yet.
Ben
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 24, 2020 15:21:38 GMT -8
I think our forum member Bernard Kron does decal work. Not sure if commercially. I have a set of Patto's decals for the C6R. Haven't used it yet but they have a great selection. Thanks, Ismael
I have made decals for various modelers on forums I frequent over the years. I use an inkjet printer so printing with white ink or metallics is impossible. A friend who has an Alps printer once did whites and metallics for me but he is in the process of relocating so I no longer have him available to me. What follows are some comments about custom decals in general and my experience with them.
Decals are a basic part of much of my car modeling style. I have done many models where I have designed and printed my own decals. I've also done work for others, usually reproducing existing artwork such as old logos and decal sheets from old kits. I have also bought decals commercially.
The 3 types of decals
Basically waterslide decals come in 3 "flavors": - 1) Professionally printed decals where each image on the decal sheet is a discreet decal that lifts away from the paper backing with a thin clear edge very near the edge of the image. How close you cut to the edge of the image will not effect the size of the decal. These are usually silk screen printed and thus require a physical silk screening master, greatly increasing initial costs.
- 2) Decals printed to a waterslide decal backing sheet using MicroDry technology. The best known printers using this technology are the now-discontinued ALPS printers. All the images on the sheet are printed at once and then coated with a clear sealer to strength the decal and improve its flexibility. What is special about the MicroDry printers is that they allow you to substitute ink cartridges in any of the 4 cartridge positions using the CYMK color format (C=cyan,Y=yellow,M=magenta,K=black). This allows use to use special white or metallic cartridges to create images including white or metallic colors. Typically the white or metallic color is placed the K(black) position and a sperate master image is created to print each of these collors as a separate pass.
However, unlike silk screened decals you must cut right up to the edge of the image to eliminate excess material. In case of numbers for example, like the numerals 8,9,6 or 4 or the letters B, P or Q, where there is an empty center arrea it can be extremely difficult or impossible to cut this out. I have bought commercially sold GoFer decals that were printed this way. Many of the smaller custom decal and specialty decal houses us this technology. Besides the cutting out issue I just discussed, unlike silk screened decals, the white ink is not very opaque. leading to other issues I will discuss below.
- 3) The third type is the home-printer type of decal. Like the MicroDry printed decals the entire sheet is printed and then sealed with a clear coat. Therefore you must cut each image out as close to the edge as you feel is necessary.
Home printers like inkjet and laser printers normally cannot print white or metallic colors. In the case of laser printers there is a company called Ghost (see: www.ghost-white-toner.com/ ) which makes a special cartridge white prints white. Like the MicroDry system this must be printed as a separate pass from a seperate print image master. I have used decals printed this way and, like the MicroDry system, the white layer is not very opaque when laid down by itself.
In the case of inkjet printers there is no way to print white or metallics at all. The "workaround" is to print to white decal paper. In this case the problem of cutting right up to the edge of the image is even more critical. There is a further issue with white decal paper which is that it's slightly thicker than clear decal paper so that the white edge has a tendency to show against dark colors.
Opacity or the lack of it
My experience has been that, at least in the car modeling world, virtually all custom printed decals where white ink is offered are printed using either MicroDry or Ghost White laser technologies. Hobbyist printers like myself will offer to do it for you on inkjet but I've never encountered a professional inkjet house. All three of these technologies, MicroDry, Laser and Inkjet share one common weakness and that is the normally they all "assume" your are printing to white paper. This is equally true with ALPS MicroDry as with the others. The way they all work is to print interningling amounts of colored toners (usually the 4 CYMK colors) to a white back ground. This means the layers of colors are really quite thin and transparent - which is to say the lack opacity, or the ability to hide the color below it. This is true of all colors, not just white as mentioned above, but of all four of the "normal" CYMK colors, even black to a certain extent. Only the MicroDry metallics are truly opaque. When you lay down a clear decal over a light colored layer this is not a serious issue. Most colors are "strong" enough to hold up against a light color, certainly white or light beige or creme, and even fairly vibrant colors like many shades of yellow. But once you get to medium to dark shades like oranges, medium to dark blues, let alone reds and blacks, the underlying color will tend to show through to some degree.
The solution to this is to apply a white underlayer under the colored layers. In the world of silk screen decals this is generally standard procedure. You can often see it if you look at the back side of a silk screen decal, which will be white. But in the rest of these technologies either white ink simply doesn't exist, of must be printed as a separate pass. When you do this then you must ensure that the white pass aligns properly with other colors. Many custom printing house will actually supply a second white-only decal to reinforce and "protect" the color layer.
When I was working with my ALPS printer friend I would actually instruct him to make 3 passes to my decals, 2 white passes followed by the color (CYMK) pass in order to ensure decent opacity. He got good color registration so this was generally not a problem. But even so I would pay for a separate white layer for insurance!
Artwork Formats
I do all my artwork using bitmap technology. Specifically I have many years experience using Photoshop so that's what I use. Bitmap images are "built" from many little dots so that theoretically it is impossible to draw a continuous line. The number of dots must be dense enough to fool the eye into thinking an edge is solid and continuous, otherwise you get "jaggies". One reason I used my friend as my MicroDry (ALPS) supplier is that he and I had worked out a method by which he could print from my artwork. Without going into the intricacies involved it meant that I could do my artwork in Photoshop and by supplying him with an intermediate format he could print my artwork accurately and consistently.
Many ALPS custom decal houses will only accept the alternative to bitmap artwork, vector graphics. Vector graphics builds the image from a series of mathematical equations that guide the print head ina continuous motion. Theoretically, regardless of the size you specify for the image the same line (edge) will be drawn from the same equations. In many cases custom printers will specify a format and even software version of vector graphic file (for example Adone Illustrator V.7 or CorelDraw X8) and will not accept generic EPS format files. This is often because they have received unsatisfactory bitmap art which either looked of poor quality or that they could not convert to "play nice" with their printer. For this reason I have encountered custom printing houses who insist on redrawing your art - with the attendant cost related to that.
I still haven't found a custom printer that will work directly from my Photoshop PSD file or even a very high resolution JPG. This is partially because most less expensive ALPS printers are limited to 300 dpi and because certain versions of ALPS printer drivers are optimized for now-discontinued operating systems like Microsft XP (!) and earl versions of vector graphic files. If this sounds like a nightmare it's because it is. Knowing what I know now I'm far more tolerant of custom decal houses and what they are facing.
I guess this went on a bit, but this may serve as a look "under the hood" at my experiences in custom decal land. I would love to hear from others regarding your experiences.
Thanx for reading this far, B.
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Post by 65slotcar on May 24, 2020 16:12:01 GMT -8
thanks Bernard for the reply and in depth explanation of making custom decals. i'm not computer savvy, so to be honest most information went right over my head. what i did take from it.... custom decals can be very difficult to make in a high quality. i will keep searching for someone to make high quality decals.it's worth the high price to get a unique livery for a race car model.
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Post by Bernard Kron on May 24, 2020 16:36:31 GMT -8
I went to Circle Track Decals this afternoon and had a look around. They appear to do beautiful stuff and their site's front page specifically addresses the opacity issue referenced above. I'm excited to see if I can develop a working relationship. The illustration you showed in your initial post is really all he needs to develop artwork for you. By the standards of what he shows in his gallery of completed projects it's very straightforward. I see no reason why he can't produce a set of decals for you with excellent results.
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Post by 65slotcar on May 24, 2020 16:55:16 GMT -8
I went to Circle Track Decals this afternoon and had a look around. They appear to do beautiful stuff and their site's front page specifically addresses the opacity issue referenced above. I'm excited to see if I can develop a working relationship. The illustration you showed in your initial post is really all he needs to develop artwork for you. By the standards of what he shows in his gallery of completed projects it's very straightforward. I see no reason why he can't produce a set of decals for you with excellent results. this sounds promising, i did contact Gary at Circle Track Decals through e-mail. He did seem like a cool guy and he didn't say he could not do the decal project. just not at the moment because of too many projects that need to be finished. i have no problem waiting and i'm sure it would be worth the wait
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Post by Art on May 25, 2020 12:39:44 GMT -8
Gary at Circle Track Decals is great. The product is great and the prices are reasonable.
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