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Post by pnance26 on Aug 14, 2021 17:12:19 GMT -8
I was just watching a video about the new rear wing for F1 in 2022 that has no end plates and is rounded. One question I didn't see addressed is this... will the DRS be eliminated from the car in 2022?
Anyone know? Some articles say yes, some say the teams are lobbying for and against... it will be interesting.
Second question. Do you think anyone will kit the various new F1 packages for 2022? I would love to see at least one 2022 (I have a feeling that MFH will do it but that will be very expensive). I can't wait to see!
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Aug 14, 2021 18:05:38 GMT -8
I have been watching this closely, with the return of full Ground Effect Tunnels there shouldnt be a need for DRS, Yup Full Tunnels. The elimination of Bulbous Wing side panels with multiple louvers , bumps and assorted tricks on the wings will severely reduce the cost of development. The 2022 Rules are all about Cost reduction, more close racing, more passing and Brand equality. Full Tunnels will also reduce the ridiculous floor board competition that has gone on this year. Standard dimension front wings will help also. One huge factor in the design of the 2022 car is Ross Brawn who is the head of Tech for F-1 now and with designs like the Mclaren MP 4-4 and many Winning/Dominate others under his belt he should have a lot to add with making the cars look clean and perform to very high levels. And if You are wondering his recent statement should be a relief. " F-1 will Never be a Spec Series" Chris
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Post by arcticwolf on Aug 14, 2021 22:25:18 GMT -8
Sneak preview :
In order to maximize the benefits of their drivers abilities, the 2022 Mercedes front wing design has been revised -
You saw it here first!!!
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 15, 2021 6:15:46 GMT -8
Chris nicely summarized the major goals of the 2022 F1 package. Reducing the ever rising cost for the smaller teams is finally being addressed as even the major teams are finding funding somewhat harder in these economic times. The other major issue is that F1 with all that aero fins, vents, tunnels, etc. has made close racing a thing of the past. The closer a car came under speed to the car in front of him, his down force could drop nearly 35%, creating massive understeer. Passing has been the super late braking for a corner, but rarely down a straight, hence the DRS zones which also had it's negative effects on the racing by putting the front running car on the defensive, which shouldn't be the case. It didn't increase the racing.
also, the tire and wheel package will be completely different. 18 inch wheels and tires with much smaller side walls should greatly aid stabilize and stiffen the suspensions under corning.
I'm really looking forward to seeing just how all of this comes together in 2022.
joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Aug 15, 2021 6:51:23 GMT -8
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 15, 2021 10:25:51 GMT -8
Chris,
The specs will allow teams to use the additional 5 inches for larger, more efficient brakes but the heat generated will need more ducting. So there's going to be a need for larger ducts limiting just how much of the total space can be used for the brake discs/calibers.
I was surprised to read that Mercedes isn't thrilled with the 18 inch wheel and larger tire. Both together will be heavier then today's 13 inch wheel/tire needing tire compounds that are harder for the side wall then what's been used for years. So a heavier wheel/tire package with a harder compound is will make the cars about 2 seconds slower on a given track. How Mercedes came up with that figure is beyond me.
joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Aug 15, 2021 13:37:50 GMT -8
To me it sounds like Mercedes is whining about having to redesign parts they havent had to for a few years. The need for larger ducting? Maybe more efficient ducting is needed, bigger ducting causes a lot more Drag on each corner. With todays Composites and alloy materials the weight should be negligible. They have have had a brake cooling problem for a few years and should welcome the additional surface cooling and room to use alternate methods for this. I see their other complaint would be those unique wheels they came out with a few years back that cooled real well and efficiently evacuated the air from under the car. The FIA did ban one design on their wheels because it negated safety in favor of cooling., Whaaa Whaaaa...... Takes money away from their secret engine power designs and development.... I dont know who came up with those complaints was but I seriously doubt the new tires or wheels will suffer. Tire sidewall rebound is designed in each compound and wouldnt be heavier, most can be eliminated in spring and suspension adjustments...it also sounds like they are lobbying against Pirelli tires (again) they have always had special attention when Michelin was a supplier.... Whaaaa Whaaaa.......
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 16, 2021 5:44:03 GMT -8
Chris,
I don't remember who actually said those comments as it was from an article referencing Mercedes issues with the new 2022 specs. Whatever slight loss of top speed and acceleration that the new tire/wheel specs might cause, it's equal for every team straight across the board.
Personally, I'm in complete favor of any rules and design changes to finally put back the racing in racing. I've hated the DRS concept because of exactly what you said, it handicaps the leading car while giving the trailing car a huge advantage. The longer the DRS zone, the more the handicap becomes. that's not racing either. Right behind that is the insane Indy Car push to pass concept. At least both cars can use their push to pass at any time till the allotted time is used up. Since Indy Car is basically a spec series, just design the car to increase the racing by decreasing all of the various Aero packages and concepts.
joel
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Post by pnance26 on Aug 16, 2021 8:07:06 GMT -8
Chris, you should be able to address this as you seem to be the most knowledgeable person here about the new rules. Will the cars all look like the protopype released? Will it just be the engine/drivetrain packages that will be different?
Seems like this take body design away from Mercedes, Ferrari, etc... and that was their bread and butter so to speak.
If all the cars will look identical, then the word "boring" comes to mind. I can't imagine Red Bull being happy about that.
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 16, 2021 13:18:28 GMT -8
Patrick,
They're can interpret the 2022 rules differently. The cars will look different, but a little more alike then over the last few years.
joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Aug 17, 2021 4:37:14 GMT -8
OK , first is this little bit on Vettel not being able to see the Kerbs because of the hew tire height and fairings, link www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/vettel-cant-see-the-kerbs-with-the-2022-tyres/ar-AANnOLq I think the cars will All look the same in a generic way but only in the smallest way possible. I want to explain the FIA Design regulations on car design somewhat simply. Take the car and divide it into boxes for each component, Nose, front wing front body cockpit forward, sidepods, etc all the way back, top to bottom. Then take each box and set a minimum and maximum measurement for each part and use it represents. The FIA has set parameters for each. Then design your part with in that box using those guidelines. Do that to the entire car, reassemble the boxes, adjust for equipment, safety, sponsors and make, throw it into the wind tunnel or use a CFD program on a Computer further adjust and then build a fresh car. Because of these design parameters , safety equipment , and other factors the cars will always be similar. But different at the same time. To show how those boxes effect design think back to the Mercedes and Racing Point Brake design Big Deal because the design in the front Brake box was TOO Similar the FIA tried to say it was a copy. Which it turned out not to be but the parameters sometimes allow a very thin line of thinking to a given part.. I hope everyone can understand my dribble but its how I interpreted the FIA Rules as shown by a leading team designer. If you have a question or dont understand, let me know and I will try to break it down a bit more....Chris |
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Post by arcticwolf on Aug 18, 2021 6:54:45 GMT -8
Cars have always looked more or less the same. Paint the 1964 F1 grid all flat black, and see if you can tell a Lotus from a Brabham or BRM or Cooper. Ferrari's, I guess you could count the cylinders, lol. Tradition dictates that everybody builds last years winner, so innovations like a Lotus 78 or Renault Turbo are rare, and immediately copied. Same thing happens with sports cars. I liked the 70's, especially the Indycars had a diverse selection of ideas, but by 82 or so everybody just bought a March-Cosworth, might as well have been a spec series. Good racing though. Today, any series, you input the rules parameters into a computer and it spits out the answer. And all the answers will be 2+2=4, just paint them different colours.
If any of you remember Henry Manney from Road and Track, he came back from Europe to cover the 66 CanAm series. He commented on the starting grid "there are red ones and white ones and blue ones". Yep.
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Post by pnance26 on Aug 22, 2021 7:53:52 GMT -8
OK , first is this little bit on Vettel not being able to see the Kerbs because of the hew tire height and fairings, link www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/vettel-cant-see-the-kerbs-with-the-2022-tyres/ar-AANnOLq I think the cars will All look the same in a generic way but only in the smallest way possible. I want to explain the FIA Design regulations on car design somewhat simply. Take the car and divide it into boxes for each component, Nose, front wing front body cockpit forward, sidepods, etc all the way back, top to bottom. Then take each box and set a minimum and maximum measurement for each part and use it represents. The FIA has set parameters for each. Then design your part with in that box using those guidelines. Do that to the entire car, reassemble the boxes, adjust for equipment, safety, sponsors and make, throw it into the wind tunnel or use a CFD program on a Computer further adjust and then build a fresh car. Because of these design parameters , safety equipment , and other factors the cars will always be similar. But different at the same time. To show how those boxes effect design think back to the Mercedes and Racing Point Brake design Big Deal because the design in the front Brake box was TOO Similar the FIA tried to say it was a copy. Which it turned out not to be but the parameters sometimes allow a very thin line of thinking to a given part.. I hope everyone can understand my dribble but its how I interpreted the FIA Rules as shown by a leading team designer. If you have a question or dont understand, let me know and I will try to break it down a bit more....Chris Nope! It makes sense to me when you break it down like that! |
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Post by pnance26 on Mar 22, 2022 6:59:05 GMT -8
So the first race of 2022 is in the books… Red Bull pooped it’s drawers when it comes to reliability. Ferrari has done its homework. Haas is making strides.
And DRS is very much a part of F1…
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Post by Joel_W on Mar 22, 2022 16:22:30 GMT -8
patrick,
The 1st race of the season was a real shocker and a great race. Yes, Ferrari did it's homework and finally has a very strong engine. Redbull was really close but it wasn't the engines that let them down, it was a fuel pump in both cars that just died. Mercedes lucked out as they were mid field cars but with RedBull's cars both DNF'ing Hamilton and Russell both scored points for 3rd and 4th. Haas really has a decent car and the fact that KMag is back driving, is the piece of the puzzle that has eluted them last year.
joel
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