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Post by Joel_W on Aug 5, 2019 11:31:00 GMT -8
I just picked up the Revell 1/25 scale Trans Am Camaro to go with my two Mustangs. I was kind of surprised when I compared the instructions for both kits that they're almost Identical. The drawings are just vague enough so I couldn't be sure if the engines are indeed different. Looking forward to building all 3 cars sooner then later as I wasted no time in getting aftermarket decals for all.
Joel
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Post by Oldtimer on Aug 5, 2019 12:53:41 GMT -8
I just picked up the Revell 1/25 scale Trans Am Camaro to go with my two Mustangs. I was kind of surprised when I compared the instructions for both kits that they're almost Identical. The drawings are just vague enough so I couldn't be sure if the engines are indeed different. Looking forward to building all 3 cars sooner then later as I wasted no time in getting aftermarket decals for all. Joel The engines, even at that scale, should be different. A Chevy small block will have siamesed exhaust ports for the two middle cylinders on each bank, and the distributor will be in the back of the engine. Ford small block will have equally-spaced exhaust ports, and the distributor in the front. Probably some other differences, but those are the most distinguishing ones.
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 5, 2019 13:02:24 GMT -8
Oldtimer, Thanks for the info. I'll check them out and see what's in the boxes.
Joel
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Post by afx on Aug 6, 2019 2:48:34 GMT -8
Haven't built either the Mustang or Camaro but I am familiar with the chassis as I'm trying to use it as a basis for my (stalled) Dekon Monza project. I too believe the chassis are are identical, haven't compared the engines however.
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 6, 2019 5:35:02 GMT -8
JC, Thanks for your input on the issues of the chassis being identical.
While I was always a big Trans Am fan, in reality I knew very little about the evolution of the series other then the basics.
Originally the series was based on cars bought straight from a dealership and modified for road racing using the basic stock frame and body. That slowly changed as teams added more and more sections of tube frames to control stiffness/flex, and weight. At some point the SCCA allowed full tube frames and silhouette bodies.
The Riley and Scott chassis were the standard that anyone could buy and race. Of course the super teams like Roush and Penske fabricated their own tube frames which gave them a advantage on the track.
So from what I've learned is that there was no official tube chassis that had to be run.
So getting back to the Revell kits, I'm now faced with the dilemma that Revell simply copied any tube chassis, and used it for all their SCCA Trans AM and IMSA GTO kits, whether or not that modeled car actually used that specific tube frame. For that matter the issues of interior details becomes questionable as well.
Another point is the car body itself. They slowly morphed into a silhouette that looked like the car model in question, but as long as it met the rules package measurements it was ok to use, and could be fashioned out of Metal, Fiberglass, Carbon Fiber, or what not.
At this point I'm just going to go on the assumption that the kits contain a generic chassis & shell, motor, transmission, suspension, etc. and leave it at that, and just enjoy the build to my current level of modeling.
Joel
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Aug 6, 2019 5:39:58 GMT -8
That is a generic block based on the Ford 302 Has the distributor in the wrong place it should be in the back on a Chevy even the 302 Chevy is a rear distributor. Pick any small block as a replacement as they all look the same 283 to 400 !! Chris
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 6, 2019 5:49:07 GMT -8
Chris, Thanks for the conformation on the placement of the distributors for both engines. I haven't really gotten into the kit parts, but I'm sure hoping that the exhaust headers are molded as "the Old Timer" described, rather then both being generic and therefore nearly totally wrong.
Joel
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Post by Oldtimer on Aug 6, 2019 6:04:47 GMT -8
Trans Am morphed over time through a number of different internal and external influences.
Originally it was based on the Sports Car Club of America's red-headed step children of sedans, divided by engine displacement, into A, B, C, and D Sedan. You have to really dig into the historic mentality of the core SCCA member, with their tweed caps and bowl pipes.
Only true "sports cars", with a flammable passenger seat required, and only duct tape covering headlights, could initially participate in "sports car" racing.
Along came the "tin-tops", and folks wanting to race them as well, and the world became much more complex. Originally, if you had a Z28 Camaro, you raced in the "Modified" class (which evolved into the Sports Racing classes), until the Sedan classes were born.
Once the factories saw the "win on Sunday/sell on Monday" reality, then the SCCA was forced into making the Sedans appropriate racers. And even then, you had to run all the factory interior (including glass and window winders), flammable cardboard interior panels, and a passenger seat. Even when dry sumping was allowed, that reservoir had to be in front of the front firewall (how's that for polar moment of inertia?). My first race car was a '69 Z28 Camaro, built to the then contemporary A Sedan rules.
The stock body/stock chassis formula worked until John Bishop created IMSA, somewhat in a backlash to SCCA internal politics, and IMSA started syphoning off the better quality competitors to their endurance race format. Case in point, IMSA used to hold their end of year race at Daytona over the Thanksgiving weekend. It was not unusual to see A and B Production Corvettes and A and B Sedans show up, straight from the SCCA Run-offs to compete for MONEY (!) in lieu of wooden trophies and dash plaques.
As IMSA evolved, SCCA had to keep up, and the Trans Am became an IMSA look-alike, with two categories, one for the traditional stock chassis-based racers, and the other for the more progressive IMSA tube-frame mentality. My second racer was a C3 chassis Corvette with a modified coil-over shock rear suspension, and a facsimile '82 Corvette body that fell off with a number of Dzus fasteners. It was probably what you could call semi-tube frame.
It wasn't until the 90's that SCCA's primary formula for the Trans Am moved to the Riley and Scott/Roush tube frame chassis (my partner and I built one to that specification), and what you had at the amateur level was the evolution of A and B Production and A Sedan into GT1, along with the eventual creation of other "GT" classes that combined, for example, C and D Production with B Sedan, and so on down the pecking order.
I truly lost track of the Trans Am after my partner and I sold out our program in 1996; but apparently it has been reformulated into a broad program of multiple classes.
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 7, 2019 6:40:59 GMT -8
Sure seems like the Trans Am series is way more then it was originally back in the mid 60s when I 1st saw these cars race. Back then as you said, they were true Pony cars that you bought right from a dealer. I'm not sure just what you could or couldn't do to them, but they put on a great show. Big American 302 (?) V8s powered all the cars. I'm not sure when the 2.0 liter and under class came to be. We never much bothered following any of those teams back then other then Brock Yate's Datsuns. I use to really like John Morton for some strange reason that I just don't remember any longer.
Today Trans AM has 4 classes, two are silhouettes with tube frames and are true race cars, while the other two are still based on the showroom type of cars.
Honestly, I Have more then enough issues trying to follow the 4 IMSA classes especially when they all are in the same race. The DPI class which are the true big boy prototype cars, the LMP2 cars which are the baby brothers to the DPI cars, and on tv are just about impossible to tell apart. Honestly, I can't see the need for this class which has so few entries other then the cost savings, and the lack of professional competition. Then there are the two "Production Classes", GTLM and the GTD (GT3). About the only way to figure out which class the cars are in which is by the color of their mirrors, either Red or Green which I mix up all the time. Again, for a TV spectator it's really hard to figure out whose racing who.
All I know is that Penske's Acura's run in the DPI class, while Ganassi's Ford GTs run in the GTLM class.
For my money, racing was so much simpler back in the good old days. Today, I need a score card, rules cheat sheet just to figure out what's going on via my TV screen.
Joel
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Post by afx on Aug 8, 2019 7:24:53 GMT -8
I agree Joel the LMP2 class adds nothing to the racing and just takes up spots that could be filled with DPI or GT cars.
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Post by 2whl on Aug 8, 2019 9:55:20 GMT -8
Joel, having built both the Camaro and the Mustang, I would say the basic chassis were the same. The difference is in the dash area and the lower side chassis where the body mounts. I hadn't thought to look at the engines to see which brand they were modeled after. But I do know of two different exhaust routings. I've got a Camaro I started 10+ years ago which I will eventually get back to. BTW, the Camaro was built using the kit "Hot Wheels" decals and came out rather well.
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 8, 2019 13:16:10 GMT -8
Joel, having built both the Camaro and the Mustang, I would say the basic chassis were the same. The difference is in the dash area and the lower side chassis where the body mounts. I hadn't thought to look at the engines to see which brand they were modeled after. But I do know of two different exhaust routings. I've got a Camaro I started 10+ years ago which I will eventually get back to. BTW, the Camaro was built using the kit "Hot Wheels" decals and came out rather well. 2whl, Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated. I did see your Hot Wheels Camaro, and I was really pretty impressed with it. Those decals came out looking excellent. Joel
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cc
Full Time Ride
Posts: 141
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Post by cc on Aug 9, 2019 5:02:07 GMT -8
Joel, Iโll be looking forward to your builds on these Trans Am kits. I have 3-4 of them in the stash. I know you will do a good job on them.
CC ๐
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Post by Joel_W on Aug 9, 2019 14:24:34 GMT -8
CC, All I can promise is that I'll try my best as I do with every build. Just no more senior moments.
Joel
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