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Post by pnance26 on Feb 22, 2020 10:47:24 GMT -8
Ryan Newman walked away from the Halifax Hospital in Daytona because of safety innovations instituted by NASCAR after the death of Dale Earnhardt in 2001. I couldn't get a full body capture of a driver in 2020 but look at the difference between Rusty Wallace in 1988  And Kevin Harvick in 2020  It's amazing! |
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Post by robhart on Feb 22, 2020 13:22:43 GMT -8
I agree, it is an amazing contrast. In fact, the 1988 picture shows that the safety equipment in the cockpit wasn't much different than what they had in the 1960s.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 15:54:59 GMT -8
Ryan Newman walked away from the Halifax Hospital in Daytona because of safety innovations instituted by NASCAR after the death of Dale Earnhardt in 2001. I couldn't get a full body capture of a driver in 2020 but look at the difference between Rusty Wallace in 1988 And Kevin Harvick in 2020 It's amazing!
A few years ago my brother lost his leg while riding an all Chrome Harley Anniversary bike. This sparked me to buy him Alex Zanardi's Book on his own brush with death in 2001. I thought it might give him some inspiration in his recovery. Buying the Zanardi book lead to me picking up 'Rapid Response' and I couldn't put it down - not because it is particularly well written - but rather because the safety of racing and race car drivers has always been a topic that is near to my heart.
Olvey isn't a particularly likable guy by any means and not someone I would ever see myself hanging out with, however he truly championed safety in Indy cars and later CART to what the standards are today. He had lots of help along the way which you find out all about in the book - which opens at the time of Zanardi's accident and backtracks to the 70's.
What does all this have to do with Nascar? Well the basic 'Cradle' that a driver now inserts himself into in a modern day Nascar is basically the same idea and concept/theory that Olvey helped develop in the Indy cars. Nascar slowly came along after Earnhardt's Death and admitted that they had been slack on driver safety for .. well basically ever.
If Nascar had introduced even half of the safety innovations that were readily available to them in the 90's thanks to Olvey and his colleagues, Dale would have survived his crash with nothing more than a bruised ego. It's a fascinating read if you want to see how CART really was at the forefront of Safety in Motorsport long before Nascar or even F1 for that matter. |
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Post by pnance26 on Feb 22, 2020 16:22:16 GMT -8
Well, Adrian, I'll kind of take this backwards... I disagree with your statement that Earnhardt would have walked away with just a bruised ego. His family and RCR tried to sue and blame Simpson Safety Equipment for the failure of Dale's harness when it was found to have been sheared away in the accident. Come to find out, Earnhardt had his seat offset to the left so he could actually see out the window and around the "A" pillar. That way, he could see the air vortex and trash coming off the car in front of him and tell where the clean and dirty air were located. He was famously known for being able to "see the air" coming off a car and this is how he did it. In order to accommodate moving the seat, Sr. had RCR relocate the attachment points for his harness from where Simpson installed them according to the rules. This was directly contributory to his death and when the Earnhardt family sued Simpson, it damn near put him out of business and so personally hurt him, he got out of the safety equipment business.
Earnhardt also refused to use a full face helmet. He was one of the last to be wearing the open face. After his death, a full face helmet became mandatory. If he had been wearing a full face, he probably wouldn't have smacked the steering wheel with his jaw sending it into his brain. Also, the HANS device had been around and he chose not to wear it. It wasn't mandated, which was your point, but it was available and it had been proven to be safer.
I think the Zanardi story is quite incredible. As an EMS veteran for 32 years, I can tell you that I have seen some nasty things but I have also seen some remarkable recoveries. Please give your brother my best.
One last note... Michael Waltrip may have done some crappy things in NASCAR but he did spearhead the movement after Daytona 2001 to develop the seats and coccoon that wraps up the drivers now. And Ryan Newman may have been saved by the "Newman" bar that he suggested be added to the roll cage. That and the EArnhardt bar installed after Dale crushed the roof of his car have been instrumental in keeping the compartment safer.
Good discussion and I will try to find that book. And as far as not being popular... try telling any alpha hardheaded male to do anything and you become unpopular quickly! I know!
Thanks for your thoughts.
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Post by 4wheels on Feb 22, 2020 16:59:27 GMT -8
I did notice that Rusty has the sternum buckle on his shoulder harness and it appears that Harvick does not, although the steering wheel might be hiding it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 18:11:35 GMT -8
Well, Adrian, I'll kind of take this backwards... I disagree with your statement that Earnhardt would have walked away with just a bruised ego. His family and RCR tried to sue and blame Simpson Safety Equipment for the failure of Dale's harness when it was found to have been sheared away in the accident. Come to find out, Earnhardt had his seat offset to the left so he could actually see out the window and around the "A" pillar. That way, he could see the air vortex and trash coming off the car in front of him and tell where the clean and dirty air were located. He was famously known for being able to "see the air" coming off a car and this is how he did it. In order to accommodate moving the seat, Sr. had RCR relocate the attachment points for his harness from where Simpson installed them according to the rules. This was directly contributory to his death and when the Earnhardt family sued Simpson, it damn near put him out of business and so personally hurt him, he got out of the safety equipment business. Earnhardt also refused to use a full face helmet. He was one of the last to be wearing the open face. After his death, a full face helmet became mandatory. If he had been wearing a full face, he probably wouldn't have smacked the steering wheel with his jaw sending it into his brain. Also, the HANS device had been around and he chose not to wear it. It wasn't mandated, which was your point, but it was available and it had been proven to be safer. I think the Zanardi story is quite incredible. As an EMS veteran for 32 years, I can tell you that I have seen some nasty things but I have also seen some remarkable recoveries. Please give your brother my best. One last note... Michael Waltrip may have done some crappy things in NASCAR but he did spearhead the movement after Daytona 2001 to develop the seats and coccoon that wraps up the drivers now. And Ryan Newman may have been saved by the "Newman" bar that he suggested be added to the roll cage. That and the EArnhardt bar installed after Dale crushed the roof of his car have been instrumental in keeping the compartment safer. Good discussion and I will try to find that book. And as far as not being popular... try telling any alpha hardheaded male to do anything and you become unpopular quickly! I know! Thanks for your thoughts.
I know all of the details of Dale's crash and the subsequent case and the findings/ultimate conclusions and yes indeed the effect it had on Simpson etc...I've studied (watched and read every article I can find- Crash Database) on just about every major accident in F1, Indy and Nascar/Winston Cup. I think by going over that in formation you made the point that I was trying to make all along - IF Nascar had mandated the safety features that had been implemented and proven successful in F1 and Cart at the time of Dales accident - i.e. the Hans Device as just one example, then Dale would still be alive. And I don't say that with confidence simply because he would have been wearing the Hans Device ...no.. I say it with complete confidence because if the right Bosses had implemented the most basic safety features as being Mandatory series wide - no exceptions - then Dale would have been wearing a full helmet - which alone, despite the safety belt being sheared would have been enough to save his life.
Let's just state the obvious here though ... Dale should never have been aloud to adjust his seat out of safety regulations, and should have been wearing a full face Helmet, BUT try asking him that ... not gunna happen because unfortunately as most things in life it all comes down to money - Man plans and God laughs - you don't upset your superstar because he is filling the seats.
But alas, accident rules all corners of the universe, and Nature doesn't care about money.
I study the accidents I think because in a silly way deep down I wish I could turn back time and bring all those greats back. I can't watch Senna's anymore .. it's just too hard...every time I see the head twitch for a second .. well ya for a second ... it's a different ending. |
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Post by pnance26 on Feb 22, 2020 18:15:46 GMT -8
I don't ever want to see Senna's "head twitch". I've seen too much of it in real life. Studying it and living it are two different things. Sorry mate, but TMI for me...
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Post by arcticwolf on Feb 22, 2020 22:51:47 GMT -8
I was watching the Imola race live on TV when Senna crashed. I knew he was dead right away.
Worse still, my lady and I were standing on the outside of 3 at Mosport watching the WSC race.Those who know the track, it's a great viewing spot. I didn't see the crash, but we heard it. We looked down to 2A and there was this cloud of dust and debris in the air. What was left of Manfred Winkelhock's car was unrecognizable. On TV is bad enough, but to see it right in front of you? My wife never went to a race with me again.
You guys may not like this next part. Motor racing is dangerous. We have mandated seat belts, full face helmets, crumple zones, Hans devices. Now the Halo and the Indycar windscreen. All make racing safer. Some things make sense, some the drivers hate, some the fans hate. Why don't we just mandate 20 airbags in the cockpit? Or we could make it completely safe by driving all the cars by remote control.
At what point do we let regulations run our lives? And at what point does it become no longer the sport of motor racing.
Just the musings of an old man who used to race motorcycles around abandoned airports.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2020 7:34:12 GMT -8
I was watching the Imola race live on TV when Senna crashed. I knew he was dead right away. Worse still, my lady and I were standing on the outside of 3 at Mosport watching the WSC race.Those who know the track, it's a great viewing spot. I didn't see the crash, but we heard it. We looked down to 2A and there was this cloud of dust and debris in the air. What was left of Manfred Winkelhock's car was unrecognizable. On TV is bad enough, but to see it right in front of you? My wife never went to a race with me again. You guys may not like this next part. Motor racing is dangerous. We have mandated seat belts, full face helmets, crumple zones, Hans devices. Now the Halo and the Indycar windscreen. All make racing safer. Some things make sense, some the drivers hate, some the fans hate. Why don't we just mandate 20 airbags in the cockpit? Or we could make it completely safe by driving all the cars by remote control. At what point do we let regulations run our lives? And at what point does it become no longer the sport of motor racing. Just the musings of an old man who used to race motorcycles around abandoned airports.
I personally didn't think Senna was gone when I saw the accident, and he could have easily survived the accident but for the perfect storm. His racing luck simply ran out, and that's the hardest thing to swallow for me, because I wouldn't have had him race any other way than the only way he knew how which was flat out all the time - always on the edge. But Senna was special, and that's was Imola was so hard, because sure we have had Schumacher and now Hamilton, but we will never have another Ayrton. I love what Brundle said about Senna in one interview he did ... he said Senna was on another level than everyone else because somehow he had the ability to know how much grip was in a corner before he entered it ... that was Senna.
It's the 'what ifs' that kill me .. the irony.. because Sid actually told Ayrton not to race on Sunday, he offered to take him fishing, to just leave imola and go fishing with him. Of course Senna said no, he had to race. |
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Post by 4wheels on Feb 23, 2020 10:20:35 GMT -8
I always think back to the last paragraph of Bruce McLaren's book "From the Cockpit". He writes, in reference to his team mate Timmy Mayers death in a Tasman series race: "The news that he had died instantly was a terrible shock to all of us, but who is to say that he had not seen more, done more, and learned more in his 26 years than many people do in a lifetime? To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
I personally feel that as racing has become safer and safer, the skill (and patience) to pass without contact has disappeared. Would the NASCAR drivers drive as they do if the cars were less safe? Racing without a certain level of risk becomes pointless, at least to me, rather like watching bumper cars at the county fair.
Heated, enclosed tunnels with moving sidewalks to the North and South Poles would make them accessible to everyone, would your arriving there in comfort equal Admiral Peary's trek in 1909? Perhaps an escalator to the summit of Everest? Racing, along with many other things, SHOULD be risky, otherwise, why bother?
Brian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 9:46:59 GMT -8
I always think back to the last paragraph of Bruce McLaren's book "From the Cockpit". He writes, in reference to his team mate Timmy Mayers death in a Tasman series race: "The news that he had died instantly was a terrible shock to all of us, but who is to say that he had not seen more, done more, and learned more in his 26 years than many people do in a lifetime? To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone." I personally feel that as racing has become safer and safer, the skill (and patience) to pass without contact has disappeared. Would the NASCAR drivers drive as they do if the cars were less safe? Racing without a certain level of risk becomes pointless, at least to me, rather like watching bumper cars at the county fair. Heated, enclosed tunnels with moving sidewalks to the North and South Poles would make them accessible to everyone, would your arriving there in comfort equal Admiral Peary's trek in 1909? Perhaps an escalator to the summit of Everest? Racing, along with many other things, SHOULD be risky, otherwise, why bother? Brian |
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