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Post by Joel_W on Apr 17, 2020 14:50:56 GMT -8
Chris, Adrian gave you some pretty solid and reasonable advice when it comes to painting. Each of us paints differently, and for different reasons. For me, lite consistent coats slowly built up is how I paint. I usually use pre-thinned lacquer based paint, which is almost the consistency of water. My primer that I thin myself is almost as thin. The key for me is the lite even coats. I never stop during a pass.
Orange peel can be caused by several things. 1st is that you're applying way to heavy of a coat of paint. Next is that the paint mixture is not thinned enough, to high of a psi, to close, and finally any combination of them.
As for your tire issues, I have a completely different set of procedures as man handling painted, decaled, and clear coated tires when trying to get them on to the wheels usually causes me issues. I've learnt this the hard way, so I now mount the tires on the painted and prepared wheels. I gloss coat then with Pledge via a flat paint brush and let it dry a full day. Then I apply the decals. I have a circle cutter and measure the diameter of the wheel, cut a mask and cover the wheel. Then I air brush on Testors Glosscoat to seal the decals. 24 hrs later I air brush on Testors Dullcoat. Any weathering I might do is applied before the Glosscoat with caulks or lightly air brushed on. I thin the clear coats 1:1 with Tamiya Yellow cap thinner, which is a lacquer base thinner.
Joel
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 17, 2020 19:55:43 GMT -8
Chris, your progress looks great so far. If I get orange peel it doesn't really bother me too much as it can be wet sanded out fairly easy.
I've put together a small tutorial for you to add to the good ideas that have already been laid out by others before me here. I'll give you my method. It's not THE method but it's what works every time for me.
I always start by washing the body thoroughly in Dawn dishwashing soap under cool water (because cooler water gets rid of suds quicker) and an old tooth brush. Blow dry the whole body off with either air from your airbrush or through canned air. Be ready with your primer coat almost immediately after getting your body thoroughly dry and shoot it on working from the bottom of the body (rocker panels) up. You start from the bottom of the body first because we always seem to forget that part when we paint. The roof is the last to get painted. Set the body aside to let the primer fully gas out in an enclosed area. Give it a day or so.
Address any areas that the primer reveals by LIGHTLY sanding with a lower grit depending on the severity of the lines, scratches or leftover seams and again working your way up through the 4000, 6000, 8000 and then the 12000 grit ranges. Remember……the smoother the better and exercise patience. It WILL pay off.
When you’re ready for your color coat have your paint at the ready, wash the body one more time using the Dawn dish soap and soft cloth. Rinse under cool water. Repeat the same drying process as mentioned earlier. When completely dry, ensure no dust or debris is on the body and proceed immediately to painting. When painting color or gloss coats it’s not necessary to have the “latest and greatest airbrush”. I use a Badger 350 on top of a good size paint jar and I use nothing but Testors One Coat Lacquer System from a spray can. I've sprayed Tamiya TS color coats using the same method. I decant the color coat into the jar and let the paint “gas out” in the jar for 3-5 minutes to make sure that there are no air bubbles in the paint. With the air pressure set at about 25-30 psi I again start at the bottom of the body and work my way around it spraying on a mist coat over the WHOLE model. Keep the body moving round and round never stopping in the middle of the paint on any sweep in light coats. The paint will continue building and when you’ve gotten a good amount of color coverage over the whole model (and it’s still not gonna be a perfectly smooth finish at this point) you’ll want to open the needle up more to get a good cover coat on. Use the same procedure starting at the bottom of the body again and work your way around the body from bottom to top. Keep it moving or you’ll end up putting too much paint on at once and end up with a run and you’ll see the magic happen right before your eyes. If you get a small piece of dust or debris in the paint while painting see if you can gently flick it out with an X-acto knife and continue painting. If you get a good sized boo-boo or mistake DO NOT try to fix it at this point. Just suck it up and end with good coverage over the whole body and put it into a sealed off area to gas out for 3-4 days. Don’t worry, you’ll be able to come back over the paint after it completely hardens to wet sand the area with the mistake/ boo-boo. Nine times out of ten you’ll be able to wet sand it out to a smooth finish using the same grits mentioned above. Once its as smooth as a baby’s butt then you’ll proceed onto the clear phase. I use Testors “Wet Look” Lacquer for ALL of my gloss clear finishes. A word on wet sanding. Pay attention to edges and raised areas while wet sanding. It is possible to burn through the color coat (as with what happened in your case) and into the primer. Just polish softly and make periodic checks while doing so and you should be ok.
Wash the body with MILD SOAP this time and a VERY soft cloth and dry thoroughly again. Use the same process in decanting, waiting for the gas out for the air bubbles to go away (WET LOOK LACQUER HAS A LOT OF AIR BUBBLES STRAIGHT FROM THE CAN-LET IT GAS OUT). Use the same application process with this coat as you did the color. You’re gonna want to look at it under light at this point because it’s gonna look that good. DON’T DO DAT!!! Put it straight in the sealed drying chamber/ booth and FORGET about it for the next 3-5 days.
After that you’ll be ok to wet sand anything that needs the attention and proceed onto the polishing phase. I use Novus 2 and then use Novus 1 to finish things up.
The biggest thing I can emphasize to you is to exercise PATIENCE. You’ll be glad you did. Hope this all helps you out Chris.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 4:06:58 GMT -8
Chris, Adrian gave you some pretty solid and reasonable advice when it comes to painting. Each of us paints differently, and for different reasons. For me, lite consistent coats slowly built up is how I paint. I usually use pre-thinned lacquer based paint, which is almost the consistency of water. My primer that I thin myself is almost as thin. The key for me is the lite even coats. I never stop during a pass. Orange peel can be caused by several things. 1st is that you're applying way to heavy of a coat of paint. Next is that the paint mixture is not thinned enough, to high of a psi, to close, and finally any combination of them. As for your tire issues, I have a completely different set of procedures as man handling painted, decaled, and clear coated tires when trying to get them on to the wheels usually causes me issues. I've learnt this the hard way, so I now mount the tires on the painted and prepared wheels. I gloss coat then with Pledge via a flat paint brush and let it dry a full day. Then I apply the decals. I have a circle cutter and measure the diameter of the wheel, cut a mask and cover the wheel. Then I air brush on Testors Glosscoat to seal the decals. 24 hrs later I air brush on Testors Dullcoat. Any weathering I might do is applied before the Glosscoat with caulks or lightly air brushed on. I thin the clear coats 1:1 with Tamiya Yellow cap thinner, which is a lacquer base thinner. Joel Joel, thanks for taking the time to explain this for me. I may have to try some pre-thinned custom paint like you use. Gravity Colors USA is only a couple hours away so maybe their shipping won't be that much. The decanted Tamiya only seems to produce 2 ounces anyway so it is not that much of a better deal. I've notice Gravity/Splash/Zero are more matte finishes too which may help as this TS50 I used was pretty glossy. I think I will thin it out more too. That is quiet a detailed process on the tires.. I'll have to try that out. I got them perfect but they cracked again whilst I was putting them on the car. It was a tight fit but I was being careful so not to break the suspension. The cracking wasn't as bad but I've never had it happen on the few other models I've done. This one has the thinnest sidewalls compared to the other tires though.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 4:16:03 GMT -8
Chris, your progress looks great so far. If I get orange peel it doesn't really bother me too much as it can be wet sanded out fairly easy. I've put together a small tutorial for you to add to the good ideas that have already been laid out by others before me here. I'll give you my method. It's not THE method but it's what works every time for me. I always start by washing the body thoroughly in Dawn dishwashing soap under cool water (because cooler water gets rid of suds quicker) and an old tooth brush. Blow dry the whole body off with either air from your airbrush or through canned air. Be ready with your primer coat almost immediately after getting your body thoroughly dry and shoot it on working from the bottom of the body (rocker panels) up. You start from the bottom of the body first because we always seem to forget that part when we paint. The roof is the last to get painted. Set the body aside to let the primer fully gas out in an enclosed area. Give it a day or so. Address any areas that the primer reveals by LIGHTLY sanding with a lower grit depending on the severity of the lines, scratches or leftover seams and again working your way up through the 4000, 6000, 8000 and then the 12000 grit ranges. Remember……the smoother the better and exercise patience. It WILL pay off. When you’re ready for your color coat have your paint at the ready, wash the body one more time using the Dawn dish soap and soft cloth. Rinse under cool water. Repeat the same drying process as mentioned earlier. When completely dry, ensure no dust or debris is on the body and proceed immediately to painting. When painting color or gloss coats it’s not necessary to have the “latest and greatest airbrush”. I use a Badger 350 on top of a good size paint jar and I use nothing but Testors One Coat Lacquer System from a spray can. I've sprayed Tamiya TS color coats using the same method. I decant the color coat into the jar and let the paint “gas out” in the jar for 3-5 minutes to make sure that there are no air bubbles in the paint. With the air pressure set at about 25-30 psi I again start at the bottom of the body and work my way around it spraying on a mist coat over the WHOLE model. Keep the body moving round and round never stopping in the middle of the paint on any sweep in light coats. The paint will continue building and when you’ve gotten a good amount of color coverage over the whole model (and it’s still not gonna be a perfectly smooth finish at this point) you’ll want to open the needle up more to get a good cover coat on. Use the same procedure starting at the bottom of the body again and work your way around the body from bottom to top. Keep it moving or you’ll end up putting too much paint on at once and end up with a run and you’ll see the magic happen right before your eyes. If you get a small piece of dust or debris in the paint while painting see if you can gently flick it out with an X-acto knife and continue painting. If you get a good sized boo-boo or mistake DO NOT try to fix it at this point. Just suck it up and end with good coverage over the whole body and put it into a sealed off area to gas out for 3-4 days. Don’t worry, you’ll be able to come back over the paint after it completely hardens to wet sand the area with the mistake/ boo-boo. Nine times out of ten you’ll be able to wet sand it out to a smooth finish using the same grits mentioned above. Once its as smooth as a baby’s butt then you’ll proceed onto the clear phase. I use Testors “Wet Look” Lacquer for ALL of my gloss clear finishes. A word on wet sanding. Pay attention to edges and raised areas while wet sanding. It is possible to burn through the color coat (as with what happened in your case) and into the primer. Just polish softly and make periodic checks while doing so and you should be ok. Wash the body with MILD SOAP this time and a VERY soft cloth and dry thoroughly again. Use the same process in decanting, waiting for the gas out for the air bubbles to go away (WET LOOK LACQUER HAS A LOT OF AIR BUBBLES STRAIGHT FROM THE CAN-LET IT GAS OUT). Use the same application process with this coat as you did the color. You’re gonna want to look at it under light at this point because it’s gonna look that good. DON’T DO DAT!!! Put it straight in the sealed drying chamber/ booth and FORGET about it for the next 3-5 days. After that you’ll be ok to wet sand anything that needs the attention and proceed onto the polishing phase. I use Novus 2 and then use Novus 1 to finish things up. The biggest thing I can emphasize to you is to exercise PATIENCE. You’ll be glad you did. Hope this all helps you out Chris. Joe, thanks for taking the time to explain this procedure to me. I will have to try this out though waiting 3 to 5 days is going to be hard especially when the model is done except for paint LOL. I do have the Novus System too. I think one of my issues was not opening the needle up far enough as I was trying to put on nice thin coats. Your airbrush looks like the H I was using. How far do you open your needle? I think I was only like 1/4 open.. and as I said above in my reply to Joel I think I need to thin my paint a little more even though it is decanted Tamiya. I use the Tamiya yellow cap Lacquer thinner. When I get all this figured out to my style of painting it will be a beautiful thing.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 4:21:13 GMT -8
The body has been sanded a primed. Hopefully I'll paint it today and have better luck but other than that I am finished with everything else. Time to start planning the next build while waiting
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 4:23:15 GMT -8
Anyone know anyone who has done the helmets? I've never seen them done but I attempted them and just could not get that lower graphic to line up. I'd love to see how that is done.
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 18, 2020 4:25:13 GMT -8
I normally don't thin paint that is decanted as it should already have enough in it Chris. Initially I only open the needle enough to mist the paint on to get some color base onto the body and I keep the body moving in order to get even coverage. What pressure are you operating at? I usually us around 25-30 psi when spraying for area coverage. After I've gotten a good color coat on then I'll open 'er up to get my wet coat. IMO the 3-5 day wait time is ok with me if I can get a good turn out so I try not to rush it on paint. A well built model car will have a "bloody nose" if the paint isn't right. It's the first thing that gets seen on any project....the very first thing.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 4:46:52 GMT -8
I normally don't thin paint that is decanted as it should already have enough in it Chris. Initially I only open the needle enough to mist the paint on to get some color base onto the body and I keep the body moving in order to get even coverage. What pressure are you operating at? I usually us around 25-30 psi when spraying for area coverage. After I've gotten a good color coat on then I'll open 'er up to get my wet coat. IMO the 3-5 day wait time is ok with me if I can get a good turn out so I try not to rush it on paint. A well built model car will have a "bloody nose" if the paint isn't right. It's the first thing that gets seen on any project....the very first thing. I think I was using between 20 and 25 PSI. I like to use lower pressures as I paint in my office and I'm not sure my Azteck paint booth can keep up.
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Post by Joel_W on Apr 18, 2020 5:01:56 GMT -8
Chris, Whatever type and brand of paint you decide on, especially if it's Gravity, DO NOT USE GRAVITY PAINTS LOCATED IN fLORIDA USA. There are pages and pages on several modeling sites as just how bad of a company he runs. Almost no one gets their paints after months and months of waiting. He never replies to emails, and only some times to PayPal when a claim in filed against him. He was originally the USA branch of Gravity paints that is located in Spain. And that's where I get my paints from. The last time I checked, my order from years ago is still listed as pending.
Their prices are the same, the service is beyond excellent, they ship DHL for a very reasonable price, and I always get my orders 3 days later.
For Zero paints I actually get them from Spot models when I order models and accessories. MCW paints are USA based, but mostly American cars, American Muscle, and Nascar. All three companies mix their paints to the exact formula that the paint manufacture used for the actual paint color. There's no close enough shade of whatever color, it's the same color, or as close as their computerized system can mix the paint.
You can see from the 3 responses to your painting questions, that each of us uses a completely different method, type of paint, psi, etc. My advice as before is to buy a few very cheap kits, so you can practice on the bodies. As for what technique to use, well as we all said, it's up to you. What I did way back when I got into cars from aircraft, is to watch videos on painting from a lot of sites, and then narrow them down to a precious few that are very similar, and that their work was top flight. For me Paul from International Scale Models paints much like I do, and I refined my technique from him.
As for what psi to air brush at, well, that depends on a lot of factors. Thinness of the paint is #1, and IMHO, the most important one.
Joel
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 5:48:47 GMT -8
Chris, Whatever type and brand of paint you decide on, especially if it's Gravity, DO NOT USE GRAVITY PAINTS LOCATED IN fLORIDA USA. There are pages and pages on several modeling sites as just how bad of a company he runs. Almost no one gets their paints after months and months of waiting. He never replies to emails, and only some times to PayPal when a claim in filed against him. He was originally the USA branch of Gravity paints that is located in Spain. And that's where I get my paints from. The last time I checked, my order from years ago is still listed as pending. Their prices are the same, the service is beyond excellent, they ship DHL for a very reasonable price, and I always get my orders 3 days later. For Zero paints I actually get them from Spot models when I order models and accessories. MCW paints are USA based, but mostly American cars, American Muscle, and Nascar. All three companies mix their paints to the exact formula that the paint manufacture used for the actual paint color. There's no close enough shade of whatever color, it's the same color, or as close as their computerized system can mix the paint. You can see from the 3 responses to your painting questions, that each of us uses a completely different method, type of paint, psi, etc. My advice as before is to buy a few very cheap kits, so you can practice on the bodies. As for what technique to use, well as we all said, it's up to you. What I did way back when I got into cars from aircraft, is to watch videos on painting from a lot of sites, and then narrow them down to a precious few that are very similar, and that their work was top flight. For me Paul from International Scale Models paints much like I do, and I refined my technique from him. As for what psi to air brush at, well, that depends on a lot of factors. Thinness of the paint is #1, and IMHO, the most important one. Joel Thanks for the tip on Gravity paints Joel. Funny thing is on DT Model Art's YT channel he is pretty active there and was shipping quickly to a couple of guys who were commenting there. Wonder if he is doing better now? Are you in the US? That is quick shipping from Spain if you are. I have several cheap kits but two in particular that I've already stripped.. just no cheap paint LOL
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Post by Joel_W on Apr 18, 2020 6:49:22 GMT -8
Chris, Yep, I'm in the good old USA. Long Island New York.
I haven't any dealings with Matt for a few years, and never will. I'm thrilled with the service for Gravity of Spain, and I'm willing to bet that I'd get their DHL shipment before the USPS delivered a package from Florida. And the price is about the same.
Joel
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Post by Ben_B on Apr 18, 2020 6:51:09 GMT -8
I’ll just chime in here to agree with Joel about Gravity USA, Gravity Spain, and Zero Paint. Spot Model is always my first stop if I need car-related stuff. They have excellent service to the US.
I’ve used MCW paint, and it’s just as good as Gravity and Zero paints. Also in the US is Splash Paints. I’ve used their paints on a couple of models and was pleased with the results. All of these companies’ paints are flat base coats that require a clear gloss coat over them. That’s not a bad thing, because flat paints usually cover better than gloss.
Ben
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Post by tatocorvette on Apr 18, 2020 7:46:20 GMT -8
Automotive paint for models? Scalefinishes.com has been my only source for over a decade. Tell him I sent you.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 8:24:11 GMT -8
Chris, Yep, I'm in the good old USA. Long Island New York. I haven't any dealings with Matt for a few years, and never will. I'm thrilled with the service for Gravity of Spain, and I'm willing to bet that I'd get their DHL shipment before the USPS delivered a package from Florida. And the price is about the same. Joel I think I may give them a try sometime if they ship that fast. I know Paul at ISM uses them now.
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Post by jchrisf on Apr 18, 2020 8:31:22 GMT -8
I’ll just chime in here to agree with Joel about Gravity USA, Gravity Spain, and Zero Paint. Spot Model is always my first stop if I need car-related stuff. They have excellent service to the US. I’ve used MCW paint, and it’s just as good as Gravity and Zero paints. Also in the US is Splash Paints. I’ve used their paints on a couple of models and was pleased with the results. All of these companies’ paints are flat base coats that require a clear gloss coat over them. That’s not a bad thing, because flat paints usually cover better than gloss. Ben Yeah, I have had more luck with flat coats. MCW and Splash seem a little expensive. What are you all using for gloss?
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