Sidewinder dragster, UPDATE, motor mounts and drive gears

[Chris K. Hale]

Mike, I wanted to comment on the engine placement, On almost all the sidewinders the engine sits at an angle tilting towards the front, why? first Overall height, next running the zoomies on the front side, back you will need additional clearance. etc.. most of the zoomies run down and slightly back necessitating some clearance by the front side of the oil pan, most likely you will have to angle the oil pan accordingly. If you look at the pics, sorry I still cant pull them up for another week or so, the injector assembly also benefits from the angle. I think there was some thought given to torque transfer when the engine placement was designed, the angle would aid in increased traction and getting that lovely Horsepower more efficiently to the ground. I am sure I just made life tough for you by adding this factor but I think when you incorporate it all the pieces will fall in place a bit easier........ Chris

[mickgee]

Thanks Chris, I'll have a closer look at the motor position today.

I still believe this car had the motor upright, since there is no motor covering the overall height is not much of an issue.  The Magwinder has a tilted motor, also reducing the height above ground, total was only 30.5" above ground.  This one is higher.

The big issue now, is trying to figure out if a narrower chassis out back will let the motor become more centered.  At this time, I really can't see it happening.  Perhaps a possibility is the motor being out of scale, with the blower too far forward....just guessing now though.

I will shorten the clutch can though, it isn't attached yet, just pushed on for a mockup.

Mike..

[afx]

Good stuff Mike.

[mickgee]

afx ...thanks JC, much appreciated.

UPDATE:  Big step is behind now...motor mounts and gear drives.

This was one of the most feared issues with this project.  Not a piece of cake, but I'm excited about how it came out.  The motor sits like a champ, the gears interlock and nothing wiggles around!  Everything is a combination of various rod and tubes that slide into each other like a periscope on a sub.  Good stuff.

The axle gears and driveline can be slid in and out, the lower motor mounting tubes just slide in and out...all is press fit.  The motor can be removed to work on separately.  No CA will be needed to mount these units.  This is a huge step forward.  Biggest next step to conquer is the bending the brass sheets for the body....but this is further down the road.

Here a few closeups;

After viewing the big photos, I think the main gear out to be drilled out....might save some weight.

Mike..

[Chris K. Hale]

Wow Mike I am enjoying this ..I am sorry about the tilt of the engine, my reference and on hand knowledge is that of the Magwinder and not other Sidewinder cars. Yea most Blowers in the modern age are mounted forward quite a bit, you may want to move it back, Look at some manufacturer of blowers like BDS and see how the hole in the blower casing is way forward and triangular in some application like 4-71 thru 8-71 blowers I asked the Guys on Amato's team about it and it is due to the Volume of Air and Fuel going in starts at the front and under acceleration it is forced back , the size and shape of the opening can determine the speed it moves and the balance of fuel going into the Intake and heads. Man I have to tell Ya, I learned so much from Drag race crews. I actually used some of the info when I was working at GM Design. I used it to help solve Air delivery problems on pre-production models where the designers and engineers forgot to leave a place for Air to enter the engine. The 84 Pontiac Fiero was one of my projects but the end design , although mine, was not what I wanted. I didnt want the side intake I wanted a Snorkle style scoop or a scoop incorporated into the roof... That car barley ran when they brought it to me.. Lol!! Chris

[mickgee]

Thanks Chris, I've been at the blower setup over the weekend. 

Made a few changes.  The blower drives were shortened, especially the crankshaft pulley, so it matches the length of the upper better now.  I changed the blower out for a longer one, this gets the 2 port injection further back towards the middle.  Also, the blower position was sent more to the rear.  I'm going with it now as is.  The injection gets a home made hat anyway, so I still have some room to center things accordingly.

I did a mockup with the header pipes too.  Since the bends are quite intricate, I'll be using a scale 2" header pipe, by using soldering rods.  Soft and pliable, plus the bare metal look is not bad either.  Also as you mentioned, the oil pan needed a few mods to make room to the left side, in this case towards the front of the motor.  I think I can still keep the fat Hemi pan, I just grounded out the thick styrene pan to allow for more room.  Didn't even gouge out any holes...thick stuff!  I think this will be enough room now.

I replaced the brass tubed axle and motor supports with polished aluminum tubes, so no paint is needed.  Gleaming, satin metal looks good in the motor area.

Block is painted satin black, slowly ready to move forward now.  Roll bar and interior appointments. 

Mike..

[Chris K. Hale]

Mike YOU ROCK, I am pleased with your work and proud to say I know you! This is modeling at its finest and something that most would say takes BIG ones to attempt. Cant wait to see what you do with the body. I have on occasion used aluminum sheet over a basswood or balsa buck to make or at least attempt to create body panel.. not for the weak at heart! Rock On My Friend! Chris

[mickgee]

Guys, look here!

A member on the HAMB messaged me, he likes the sidewinder project, says it looks good.  Well, from that forum, this is a golden message!

BUT!  He adds a video, of a film he shot himself at Lions Drag strip in late spring of 1959, of a sidewinder.  He added sound later to the video, after recording the same car at the Detroit Nationals in September 1959!  To this day, the sound of this car is his favorite.

He wrote, his family lived next door to the speed shop for 15 years, and he regularly saw this car in the lot, and quite often at the strip.  He himself, quit active racing late 60's.

This car;

Look, and listen.  Turn up the sound.

Ooops. I don't know how to post a video.  Sorry.

[Chris K. Hale]

Mike the easiest way to add a Youtube video is to add it as a link.. let me know if you need help with that.its easy. I dont know of a way to paste it directly on the board with out using a link.. JC may know he is quite a bit more knowledgeable on computer stuff.. Chris

[mickgee]

Thanks Chris....here another try;

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vevILoR2rRs

I'll take it as is.  It's the video I'm writing about.  This video courtesy of Junji Nakamura, YouTube.

I just learned from him, he has many more, updated videos of restored sidewinders too!  More to come.

Mike..

[tatocorvette]

That's a wonderful sound!

[mickgee]

Thanks Ismael, an interesting video.

@chris Hale, look at this one.  Haven't seen any photos like this yet...

www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=294827

Courtesy Steve Reyes.  Also Junji Nakamura sent me the link.

Finally the missing pieces are coming together.  I do think the rear/chain setup would be fairly representative of what most of the better sidewinders implemented, including the "Magwinder".

Currently working on the interior, roll bar is finished.  Update soon.

Mike..

[mickgee]

....another sidewinder video, nice sound too;

vimeo.com/94068981

Mike..

[tatocorvette]

That is so cool! It just sounds right!
I have the Vimeo video running in the background while working just to hear it idling and revving.

Thanks,
Ismael

[Chris K. Hale]

Mike, Thanks Interesting article, I have to question some of it for accuracy but remember there wasnt anyone writing stuff down, taking pics, recording it on phones or internet. I have not talked to Chuck Jones for a while but the history of the Sidewinder car is varied and really either him or Christman would be the guys who know. During the Magwinder restoration both Chuck and Garlits called me often it was kind of nice to talk to legends.. The pics are Great and will come in handy when I build my Magwinder, your Sidewinder is coming along very nice and a Tip of the Hat for your research! Just excellent. Something that caught my eye in the pics was the Transverse front leaf spring front suspension instead of the Torsion bar type like the Magwinder or the Twin bean VW style used on the Sidewinder II. Amazing the amount of experimentation going on in the late 50's through the late 60's . Glad to have lived it and though my Dad I participated. Being around 10 or 12 years old, I was just the garage Monkey, fetching stuff and asking questions. Too bad the youth of today will never experience that. Chris