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Post by grandsport3 on Apr 17, 2023 21:41:05 GMT -8
Evening Guys, Forth time I've tried entering this post. What does this attached photo of Gurney-Eagle 305 push rod unusual individual header exhausts stacks belong to? A "McLeagle", Lola T70 or Lola T160? Any amplifying info please.Thanx for viewing, John  |
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 8:05:52 GMT -8
John, from my experience hanging around AAR as a youngster, and knowing what Motorcycle enthusiasts Dan, Swede and all the guys were , they built a Triumph bike with a side mounted Turbo back in 67 - 68. I would say those are indeed individual Motorcycle mufflers. Note: the crew are wearing headsets because it so darned loud. Looking at the photo it could have been the McLaren Elva from 65 but looking at the partial treaded tires those were used in 68. The airjack set up lends itself to a 67-68 Can Am car but in those years. I dont know that this set up was ever used in a actual competition event. Most likely testing, where did this pic come from? Chris
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 8:19:06 GMT -8
Ps. I saw that duck tail oil tank on a AAR car just yesterday, it may be the key to what the chassis is I will look for it again today.. Chris
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 9:26:15 GMT -8
John, I have more questions than answers, Gurney's crews always wore jackets with the AAR emblem but the guys in the photo dont have any? The valve covers are not Weslake or Eagle but Webber? Never saw a AAR car with that type ? The tire markings appear to be for car # 76 cant find anything in USRRC or Can AM with that number that would match? I am beginning to think this is not any of the their cars, crew or anything. Thats why I asked where the photo came from? although I did see that Oil tank on something? Let me know and I will continue my search in the meantime.. Chris
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 10:06:13 GMT -8
OK Can Am Cars #76 and #75 Webster Racing Enterprises, shows it as being driven by Ed Leslie, but never actually raced it ? Raced by Tony Settember or Bill Eve Ran Lola T-70 mk II and Lola T-70 mk III Dark blue with Red stripe. 1965? Ran Oldsmobile engines and 1966 on Chevrolet. I did'nt think those were Ford Valve covers when I looked closely, too Square on the end like Chevrolet. I think Ed Leslie was maybe owner of Webster. in years previous (USRRC) Webster had a car of their own name which ran Olds, Cooper and ?? engines. No photos of the early cars. I think thats what we are looking at in Your Photo.. Chris+
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Post by arcticwolf on Apr 18, 2023 14:58:46 GMT -8
Judging by the vertical slope of the rocker covers, the equal spacing of the exhaust ports and the angled spark plugs, plus the distributor is at the front, I would say that's a small block Ford in the photo.
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 17:07:06 GMT -8
OK I am not a engine expert but Webster did make their own valve covers , I think the fins may distort the actual shape in the photo. but here is the 1964 Webster #76 in it's restored form, and clearly those are the same exhausts..  The restored car is silver and red although in a newspaper article the paint scheme is the same but dark blue and red....I think this is the Webster car not Lola .. Chris |
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 18, 2023 17:16:18 GMT -8
The original Webster  |
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Post by grandsport3 on Apr 19, 2023 1:05:21 GMT -8
By God, Your Panel of "Experten" have got it Right! I can hear Sherlock Holmes say "Elementary Watson, it must be someone who likes chrome plated exhaust headers and a small block engine. The tire mark #76 is Webster's #76, NOT Gurney's #77 and the 5-spoke wheel and the center mount roll bar were the "Red Herring" to throw us all off.The valve covers are SO Gurney - Eagle it's scary! I've spent all day Barking up the wrong tree!
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Post by arcticwolf on Apr 19, 2023 8:49:29 GMT -8
The Webster Special, from everything I can find, ran as a 2 litre Lotus Ford and later as a 4 litre Oldsmobile. The 215 Olds engine had it's valve orientation (front to rear) as exhaust - intake - exhaust - intake - intake - exhaust- intake - exhaust. This is a 215 Oldsmobile:
The car in John's photo may be a Webster, the rocker covers certainly look like they say Webster on them, but that engine is not an Oldsmobile, and it's certainly not a small block Chevy.
Looking at that beautiful silver car that Chris posted, the exhaust spacing would suggest Oldsmobile (bigger gap in the centre). I don't think it's the same car.
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Apr 19, 2023 18:23:19 GMT -8
According to my research Webster was a Machine/Foundry shop out of Mid-California, they could make just about anything for Automotive engines, like a right angle Distributor drive for GM , Chevy, Olds...) and Ford engines, Water Pump offset drives, Valve covers, Fuel pump drives etc. They ran various cars including their Webster, several versions, Lola T70, McLaren Elva etc.. They started with a cooper 2 liter V-8 based on the Buick 215 block and went from there. A Father and Son Team who hired several drivers. Racing Sports Cars under USRRC and Can Am has lots of engine, chassis and driver combinations at many races from early 1960's through about 1971. If you look at the individual races by year you can find them in the entrants lists and some finishes, nothing on the podium but still finishes. I spent about 4 hours chasing down the Webster saga yesterday and they were very consistent sports car competitors. Good stuff if you have the time and patience. I found a Sacramento newspaper article from 1970? that had a ton of info but I lost it while trying to copy it, unfortunately they like Racing Sports Cars dont allow any copying. Chris
A special Thanks to John for the original photo and leading me on quite a journey...
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