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Post by arcticwolf on Sept 8, 2021 18:01:43 GMT -8
Key word being "restored" car. I think we have to decide, are we building a model of the original, or a model of what's in the museum. This is an immaculate restoration, but who knows how accurate all the details are:
They have them on the headlights and back window too:
I don't know, can't find any close ups from back in the day.
I guess it's good old builders discretion (or preference). But even in 1/12ths scale, I'd never see the difference, lol.
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Post by pnance26 on Sept 8, 2021 18:05:30 GMT -8
Ok... I stripped the shiny tape from the exterior of the windows and applied the rivets which are actually very small washers from SMS. I don't think at the size you can really tell the difference. As to the Philips head issue, I would leave that to Chris Hale who has seen the real car.
Now as to the black. At this point, it is only applied to the door surround and not the window. That can be done. That is a very good idea.
Any input on the PE hardware on the inside of the windows?
I'm still confused by Johnny's remark about the tape. I wonder if he was saying on the windows or what? I would love to see a photo.
All good stuff. Slow going but it is all worth it. And of course, I will have to continue this (the rivets) on all the windows and the headlight lenses. But it works! Thanks, Chris Hale!
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Sept 8, 2021 18:22:49 GMT -8
These windows and headlight covers are obviously on a restored car as mentioned, the vibration and wind pressure on them at the track would have caused the screws to back out causing all sorts of Havoc. They would start falling out after a very short time. Great Pics though. Patrick I think you did a excellent job on the P/E on the inside, when you do the Mastic around the window it will accentuate the P/E hardware and it will look even better... Chris
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Post by pnance26 on Sept 9, 2021 5:27:35 GMT -8
These windows and headlight covers are obviously on a restored car as mentioned, the vibration and wind pressure on them at the track would have caused the screws to back out causing all sorts of Havoc. They would start falling out after a very short time. Great Pics though. Patrick I think you did a excellent job on the P/E on the inside, when you do the Mastic around the window it will accentuate the P/E hardware and it will look even better... Chris So Chris, on the gold restored car, the inside "mastic" is gold. On the raced actual cars, was that inside color black or did it match the base body color of the car? I would think it should be black, don't you?
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Post by Joel_W on Sept 9, 2021 6:06:00 GMT -8
Patrick, in scale and not in a macro picture, the rivets look darn good to me on all the glass.
joel
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Post by arcticwolf on Sept 9, 2021 6:31:20 GMT -8
These windows and headlight covers are obviously on a restored car as mentioned, the vibration and wind pressure on them at the track would have caused the screws to back out causing all sorts of Havoc. They would start falling out after a very short time. Great Pics though. Patrick I think you did a excellent job on the P/E on the inside, when you do the Mastic around the window it will accentuate the P/E hardware and it will look even better... Chris So Chris, on the gold restored car, the inside "mastic" is gold. On the raced actual cars, was that inside color black or did it match the base body color of the car? I would think it should be black, don't you? Patrick, I doubt the mastic is gold. It's either non-existant or clear silicone. The windshield got the black rubber treatment but the rest of the glass didn't. However, this is a restored car.
This period pic of a MK 1 clearly shows the same treatment on the side window - no black mastic. So the restored gold car may well be accurate in that regard.
You can also see in the top pic that some of the original fasteners look like rivets upon first glance, but are actually a pan head Allen key capscrew which was quite common back then (before Torx came along), especially on an English car, which these were.
Hope this helps Paul
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Post by Chris K. Hale on Sept 9, 2021 6:57:23 GMT -8
Like I said, each Team received the cars in a semi assembled state, less engine, transaxle, no windows installed, rough fit body work etc. Depending on the Team it is possible that assorted fasteners were used, but all the Cars I have seen in original raced condition have Rivets and Black Mastic. I am sure the team s used rivets because of the lack of other Fasteners that wouldn't possibly cause problems at speed and over the period of time racing back out. I have never seen colored mastic on any of the cars. it would be a modern type item, as would Torx screws and there real wasn't a lot of smooth head Allen screws around either. We didn't use stuff like that building Indy, Can Am and Hot Rods in our family garage.
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johnny
Full Time Ride
Posts: 129
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Post by johnny on Sept 9, 2021 8:22:44 GMT -8
Ok... I stripped the shiny tape from the exterior of the windows and applied the rivets which are actually very small washers from SMS. I don't think at the size you can really tell the difference. As to the Philips head issue, I would leave that to Chris Hale who has seen the real car. Now as to the black. At this point, it is only applied to the door surround and not the window. That can be done. That is a very good idea. Any input on the PE hardware on the inside of the windows? I'm still confused by Johnny's remark about the tape. I wonder if he was saying on the windows or what? I would love to see a photo. All good stuff. Slow going but it is all worth it. And of course, I will have to continue this (the rivets) on all the windows and the headlight lenses. But it works! Thanks, Chris Hale! Patrick, For the race, black tape was applied around the window edges over the rivets. I have read this was to reduce wind noise at speed. In the first pic you can see the tape has started to fall off, front bottom corner. In the second image, it's flapping around at the top corner. Johnny Attachments:
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Post by pnance26 on Sept 9, 2021 11:06:22 GMT -8
Ok... I stripped the shiny tape from the exterior of the windows and applied the rivets which are actually very small washers from SMS. I don't think at the size you can really tell the difference. As to the Philips head issue, I would leave that to Chris Hale who has seen the real car. Now as to the black. At this point, it is only applied to the door surround and not the window. That can be done. That is a very good idea. Any input on the PE hardware on the inside of the windows? I'm still confused by Johnny's remark about the tape. I wonder if he was saying on the windows or what? I would love to see a photo. All good stuff. Slow going but it is all worth it. And of course, I will have to continue this (the rivets) on all the windows and the headlight lenses. But it works! Thanks, Chris Hale! Patrick, For the race, black tape was applied around the window edges over the rivets. I have read this was to reduce wind noise at speed. In the first pic you can see the tape has started to fall off, front bottom corner. In the second image, it's flapping around at the top corner. Johnny I see it now Johnny. So it went over the rivets? And was it flat or glossy?
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Post by tartan54 on Sept 9, 2021 12:18:56 GMT -8
Guys, I've been looking at all the pictures I have from the time and #1 seems to be the only one with the black tape around the side windows, the rest are as the gold car, no tape, no mastic. I've cropped some pictures - Or maybe not all... Maybe Shelby cars did and Holman Moody didn't? Pays to check your references. Anyway Patrick you can just pit black decal strips over your fasteners! The pictures just aren't clear enough to tell if they're rivets or screws. Dave
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Post by tartan54 on Sept 9, 2021 12:23:12 GMT -8
Patrick, it looks like black electrical insulation tape, got that semi matt sheen to it.
Dave
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johnny
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Posts: 129
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Post by johnny on Sept 9, 2021 14:49:47 GMT -8
Guys, I've been looking at all the pictures I have from the time and #1 seems to be the only one with the black tape around the side windows, the rest are as the gold car, no tape, no mastic. I've cropped some pictures - Or maybe not all... Maybe Shelby cars did and Holman Moody didn't? Pays to check your references. Anyway Patrick you can just pit black decal strips over your fasteners! The pictures just aren't clear enough to tell if they're rivets or screws. Dave Yes, I think it was a Shelby thing from the photos I've seen so far. I think from memory the number 2 had it too?
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johnny
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Post by johnny on Sept 9, 2021 14:56:44 GMT -8
Patrick, it looks like black electrical insulation tape, got that semi matt sheen to it. Dave I've always imagined it to be 3/4" standard black insulation tape. Patrick, I'll probably use this actual tape as thickness is not an issue with it. Cut it into strips of 1/16" would be in scale. When it's this narrow it will be a doddle to lay it down and conform to the radiused corners of the windows. I used to use this material and method for panel lines on lexan RC car bodies! Incidentally, I'm sure they also taped the screen edges (at the top at least)...will try to find a pic. Looks like matt gaffer (theatrical) tape. Johhny
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Post by tartan54 on Sept 9, 2021 14:58:28 GMT -8
Here's a cracking close up of the tape, shows the bubbles over the rivets, if only I could find a similar one of the cars without the tape.
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johnny
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Post by johnny on Sept 9, 2021 15:01:52 GMT -8
Here's a cracking close up of the tape, shows the bubbles over the rivets, if only I could find a similar one of the cars without the tape. ...And number 2 (badly done!) Attachments:
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